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Post by Admin on Apr 12, 2008 4:52:07 GMT -5
I mentioned Katie Roiphe on another board which made me think we could do with this category.
Use this space to discuss any representations of Carroll and/or his work in film, fiction, graphics and any other media - with the exception of screen/stage adaptations of specific works, which can fit quite happily under the work's title.
Sub-categories such as film, novel, political cartoons will doubtless be created as and when they become relevant. (Just why Carroll has been so massively popular with the last-named might be an interesting topic for starters!)
Mike (Admin)
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Post by joelbirenbaum on Apr 13, 2008 10:29:33 GMT -5
This is one of my favorite topics. The reason that Alice is a pop culture icon is that the book is so adaptable. Folks use it to prove whatever is in their agendas, even opposing positions. The characters in the Alice books are pure archetypes and thereby highly suitable to use in political cartoons. The characters are also universally known. After all the last thing you want to do in a political cartoon is to explain why it works or use someone obscure to elucidate your political statement. The Mad Tea Party is an obvious choice to poke fun at any group coming to an absurd political decision. Tweedledee and Tweedledum are used over and over to point out the lack of significant differences in our political candidates. The Cheshire Cat is the perfect choice to portray someone who is hard to pin down. The list goes on.
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Post by johntufail on Apr 13, 2008 17:45:06 GMT -5
I do think there should be a Carroll and culture category. His influence persists - and not only in literature - he continue to influence visual artists.
However, one thing I think that the list should do, is at some stage in the near future, review all the categories. Don't get me wrong, I'm not being critical - in fact I think that for what was a pretty experimental and radical (not to mention controversial) site, those responsible deserve both thanks and gratitude.
Nevertheless, as with any prototype, fine tuning is necessary. For example, it sems to me that the reason the section on the Carroll Myth has not been used, is that the issues raised have been more comfortably dealt with in other sections. There is also the case that perhaps some people might see the use of the term 'Carroll Myth' as politically discomforting. Perhaps this section could be replaced by a section that alerts members to new Carroll studies - especially studies that are perhaps not too easily accessible?
I have to say, that so far as sites like this are concerned I am not a democrat! In the end the responsibility and therefore the power lies with the list owner. Nevertheless, like the Senate under Augustus, I do believe supportive debate can ease the burden of the 'Crown of Olives'.
Regards
JT
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Post by johntufail on Apr 18, 2008 18:04:30 GMT -5
Hi Joel,
I was hoping that someone else would pick up on your perceptive comments about Carroll's use of archetypes. Of course you are quite right. On the other sights there are debates about Carroll's philosophy and Carroll's logic, but to realy understand Carroll - to get to the heart of what Carroll is trying to explain to us, we really need to undestand both Carroll's use of myth andarchetype and why this is so important.
Maybe you could expand on your original mail!
JT
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Post by mahendra on Apr 18, 2008 19:34:59 GMT -5
The archetype comments are excellent, and what lifts this entire issue to an even higher level is the intriguing Carrollian strategy of organically inserting such "deep" archetypical structure into another, simultaneous matrix of logic/word-play.
I can't think of other writers, offhand, who have succeeded with such an original strategy. Perhaps the Magical Realists at times, Borges et alia?
Or are the two worlds of Archetype & Logic-Play so dissimilar? They certainly do intersect in the visual arts, particularly in the 20th century … is Nonsense a modernist archetype?
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Post by joelbirenbaum on Apr 20, 2008 5:55:23 GMT -5
One aspect of Alice in the popular culture that i find truly telling is the use of Alice in advertising. Like in political cartoons, to use a figure in advertising, it must be a universally known figure with traits that tie to the product being sold. Alice characters have been used in major long term ad campaigns to sell beer, appliances, and electronics. In individual ads they have been used to sell almost everything else and are still being used today. What other books have had this kind of penetration into our daily lives? Take a look at the following to get a feel for the impact of Alice on advertising: squirl.info/collection/show/2068squirl.info/collection/show/2062 |
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Jules
Rook
The trombone frightens me
Posts: 45
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Post by Jules on Apr 21, 2008 7:12:27 GMT -5
That's such a good point. Advertising and political cartooning are probably totally the best indicators of a thing's real place in the 'collective unconscious' , because they are relying on such automatic identification by the readers. It's only going to work with images and ideas that are truly deeply embedded in us.
And wow - what a collection! I think it'd would be really cool to see all those images brought together in a big illustrated book. - "The Avertised Alice" or something. I could spend hours browing through it! And it really impacts on the mind, just how much people use Carroll's images.
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Post by joelbirenbaum on May 1, 2008 10:16:54 GMT -5
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