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Post by bettyboop on May 20, 2008 11:41:43 GMT -5
You're thinking of the Cut Pages in Diary documentThis is what Wiki says: This paper, known as the "cut pages in diary document", was compiled by various members of Carroll's family after his death. Part of it at least was presumably written at the time that some of the pages were being mutilated, as it offers a brief summary of two diary pages that are now missing, including the one for June 27, 1863. The summary for this page states that Mrs. Liddell told Dodgson there was gossip circulating about him and the Liddell family's governess, as well as about his relationship with "Ina", presumably Alice's older sister, Lorina Liddell. The "break" with the Liddell family that occurred soon after was presumably in response to this gossip.[41][42] An alternate interpretation has been made regarding Carroll's rumored involvement with "Ina": Lorina was also the name of Alice Liddell's mother. What is deemed most crucial and surprising is that the entry seems to make it clear Dodgson's break with the family was not connected with Alice at all. [/b] [/quote] Mmmph...does anyone think Dodgson was involved with Alice's mother?
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Post by ermete22 on May 20, 2008 17:10:16 GMT -5
Hi bettyboop, Karoline Leach wrote an excellent book about a possible love story between the young Carroll and Alice's mother. You find more information here: karolineleach.com/carrollwork.html. The family, I believe suggested Elen Terry, an actrice, very good friend of Carroll, but apparently she was too young at that epoch (I have heard about that but I never verified. personally)Karoline Leach's book is anyhow very interesting from many other points of view. My personal opinion, based on researches which are too long to be summed up here, was that Elisabeth Siddal, the unfortunate wife of Dante Gabriele Rossetti was the woman Carroll loved, maybe for just a month in the summer 1855. But, at this stage of knowledge is just one of the candidates; I think nobody actually has enough information to mantain for sure who she was. Regards Carlo
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Post by jenny2write on May 27, 2008 17:00:17 GMT -5
I'd still like to know whose handwriting the cut diary pages note was in. It wasn't Menella's.
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frockmaker
Rook
"I'm forty, unmarried and I work in musiclal theatre - you do the math"
Posts: 22
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Post by frockmaker on May 28, 2008 3:19:33 GMT -5
I'd still like to know whose handwriting the cut diary pages note was in. It wasn't Menella's. Hey Jenny: this article is a loooooong look at the whole cut pages doc, including whose handwriting it's in. Enjoy.
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Post by jenny2write on May 28, 2008 8:46:35 GMT -5
Couldnt see the url - can you post it again? Thanks!
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Post by johntufail on May 28, 2008 20:28:26 GMT -5
Would be interesting to see the full list of Claiments or Carroll's love interest and look at them one by one. To be fair, the ones I've seen so far can all have genuine claims (except the nurse!). These appear to be: Mrs Liddell, Ellen Terry, Elizabeth Siddall. Among extremely Dark Horses are Alice, Lorina and other 'child-friends' in various stages of post-pubescent devlopment.. If one interpreted the word, 'Love' as Agape, one could also include Mary Brown.
I've pobably omitted some candidates.
Regards
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frockmaker
Rook
"I'm forty, unmarried and I work in musiclal theatre - you do the math"
Posts: 22
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Post by frockmaker on May 28, 2008 22:32:58 GMT -5
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Post by jenny2write on May 29, 2008 11:48:30 GMT -5
thanks!
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Jules
Rook
The trombone frightens me
Posts: 45
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Post by Jules on May 30, 2008 4:35:06 GMT -5
That is my favourite Carroll site, it's soooo beautiful and so full of info!
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Post by leahliddell on Dec 15, 2008 18:59:16 GMT -5
..There's been something I've been pondering...
Hasn't ANYONE ever searched Menella and Violets previous residences? ..
Certain things lead me to believe that the mystery of the missing diaries is not over yet. I believe that the missing diaries are still in existence...and maybe even the cut pages.
It's said that when Menella was at her death bed, her last words were something about the missing diaries...but why would there be any need to try and say something about the diaries if they were destroyed? Why would someone close to death worry so much about something that no longer exists? Maybe because it is still in existence....
I don't know...it's just my reasoning. But, I myself have had an experience that leads me to believe that they are still out there.....
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Post by mikeindex on Dec 24, 2008 14:35:11 GMT -5
Hi Leah, and - belatedly - welcome to the list. You raise an interesting point. To my knowledge no-one has searched the Dodgson sisters' former residences - I'm not too sure whether anyone in Carroll studies even knows the precise addresses, though with old census results now available online it would presumably not be too difficult to find out. An intriguing assignment. The question I'm sure everyone has been dying to ask (though too polite actually to do so) - what was your experience? Also, I presume Liddell is a pseudonym - and you're not a relation? Mike ..There's been something I've been pondering... Hasn't ANYONE ever searched Menella and Violets previous residences? .. Certain things lead me to believe that the mystery of the missing diaries is not over yet. I believe that the missing diaries are still in existence...and maybe even the cut pages. It's said that when Menella was at her death bed, her last words were something about the missing diaries...but why would there be any need to try and say something about the diaries if they were destroyed? Why would someone close to death worry so much about something that no longer exists? Maybe because it is still in existence.... I don't know...it's just my reasoning. But, I myself have had an experience that leads me to believe that they are still out there.....
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Post by leahliddell on Jun 22, 2009 22:19:45 GMT -5
Haha, no relation.
I have a friend that is wiccan, I'm not, but participate is some of the rituals with my friend.. Last Halloween, she had me over for a ritual.
And by that, I do not mean a hocus pocus seance or anything like that. She's kind of the earthy hippy wiccan.
Anyway, I decided to try and contact Charles.
I only asked one question, and got a one word answer: floorboards.
The thought was most definitely not my own, and I had never even entertained the idea of where exactly the missing diaries could be...if they even exist.
But, I have a strong feeling that they DO in fact still exist. And that maybe they could be hidden somewhere....like under the floorboards.
It's just a hunch. I could be completely wrong.
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Post by mikeindex on Jun 24, 2009 6:25:13 GMT -5
Setting aside any reservations some members of the forum may have about your approach, all the diary volumes were intact and above ground at CLD's death, so I'm afraid that whatever he meant by 'floorboards', it wasn't the diaries.
The person you need to contact is - probably - his niece Menella Dodgson (d. 1963).
Mike
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Post by leahliddell on Jul 2, 2009 23:35:02 GMT -5
I'm quite aware that he would not have hidden them.
I'm implying that Mennella or Violet would had been the ones to...more so Mennella though.
I wouldn't be very surprised if Collingwood had his own bit of editing though...as I'm sure everyone knows he didn't get that intimate into Charles' life...especially in leaving a paragraph to leave all Lewis fans scratching their head: pg 355 where Collingwood says pointedly that there was something tragic going on...but in the interest of the family, hid.
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Post by GoetzKluge on Jul 3, 2009 2:08:34 GMT -5
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